Hi Annalisa! Thanks for having me over. I've been here often enough to be a boss and suggest you put the kettle on. We'll enjoy a cup of tea as we discuss reader input.
Kettle's on, and there are some really chocolatey biscuits in the tin! Now, who've you been talking to recently?
I talked to an avid reader the other day and she shared what I consider valuable advice for us all.
She said she loved to buy indie and small pub books, because...
The price is right. She knows the editing might not always be as tight as a big pub, but the $10 price difference makes up for that.
She likes how there is less "formula" fiction in indie and small pub. Story lines are fresher when you stray from the mainstream.
Indie and small pub writers are easily reached and most are friendly and sooo appreciative of a kind word.
And what rabid reader wouldn't love to discover the next E.L. James or Colleen Hoover?
But the one drawback, as she sees it?
Indies and small pubs have a tendency to ramble about in their stories.Hmm. Why would that be?
There is a saying, you can either be the dog of kings or the king of the dogs.
With indies and small pubs, a writer is given much more authority and leeway than at a big house. Hence, the king of the dogs. Most times, to accept or deny an edit is up to the writer.
In a big house, these writers are working for the kings, but as their dog. They say make an edit, I'll bet that edit is made.
The freedom of the small pubs and indies puts the burden of responsibility almost solely on the writer.
For myself, I try to avoid this by using several betas and listening when there is unity in opinion.If more than one person sees the problem...cut it; change it...whatever it takes; fix it.
It's best to listen before publication rather than hear it in a review after publication.
Fate Intended is the
third book in the Coulter Men Series. Trip is the last of the Coulter
sons to find love. He’s a handsome man with all the skills a young spy
needs to succeed. But when it comes to love, he misses the target. Jane
is a sweet beauty who may or may not be wanted for murder. She’s hiding
out as a cleaning lady when chance brings her and Trip together. It
looks like a happily ever after is in the cross hairs until reality
tries to destroy what fate has intended.
Elizabeth Seckman is a simple chick with a simple dream…to write stories people want to read.
a Rafflecopter giveaway
Editing indie authors is no easy task sometimes lol. It's really difficult because it's hard to see my name on a book as editor when the author has chosen to not make the changes suggested. :(
ReplyDeleteUgh. That would be hard! Do you ever want to add a disclaimer Kyra?
DeleteWhat's the point of having an editor if you don't LISTEN to the editor?
DeleteGet outta here! Next you'll be telling us that Elizabeth cleaned your whole house before she left, Annalisa.
ReplyDeleteShe didn't do that for me. Come back now Elizabeth and sort it out!
Oooh, Elizabeth's in trouble :-)
DeleteNo worry of that Fanny! I don't even clean my own house :)
DeleteI make most of the changes suggested by my critique partners and all of the edits by my publisher's editor. They are usually right anyway.
ReplyDeleteListening to people who have a bit of distance is certainly worthwhile.
DeleteWhen Fate Intended went to edit, I went through and did all the corrections etc. and then emailed my editor the original (I always make a spare copy, just in case) and when he got it, he thought I rejected every single change. He was very diplomatic in the return email that said he knew it was my choice, but I needed to seriously reconsider changing nothing in the novel. I'd have sent me a "I'm going to strangle you!" email!
DeleteGood advice!
ReplyDeleteI never thought about that before, the difference in editorial demands at the indie level. It's a very good point, though.
I like having a bit more control, I think, though. But I won't know until my Big 4 deal comes through... (hahahaha)
DeleteIt is both a blessing and a curse to have control. And no one person is ever always right. That's why I like to have several people give me input. If I hear from more than two that something is an issue...that's a red flag.
DeleteYes indie runs the risk of not always putting out your best work because of all the pressure. But I'm glad readers notice the fresh ideas small pub and indie writers provide. Inspiring post Liz.
ReplyDeleteYes, that was a really positive point to take from the post, wasn't it?
DeleteA good indie book is like a breath of fresh air. I love well written surprises.
DeleteI like the distinctions you made regarding indie and small pub books; they also made me think of indie films, especially when you mentioned rambling. I love watching independent films, because like indie and small pub books, they often cover different areas of life that haven't been portrayed over and over again in mainstream films. But one thing I do notice about certain (though not all) indie films are several scenes that should have been cut or shortened due to all the rambling that certain characters did.
ReplyDeleteI think it might be even more obvious in films, actually. I have to admit, I can be a bit of a skimmer when I'm faced with a lengthy ramble.
DeleteYou're totally right. I think with big film/big book makers, there are several sets of eyes to give a critical edit to the tale...whereas with an indie, it is being modified by its creator who loves every sentence and line of her/his little darling. Less objectivity in indie.
DeleteThere's also the joy of absolutely NO ONE catching an error either in film or books.
DeleteJay, my husband is the master of finding errors in movies. Even the big films have their little flaws.
DeleteHey Annalisa,
ReplyDeleteCheck under the carpet... I think you will find that *that's* where are the crumbs and dust went to.... That Seckman, let me tell you...
PS...enjoyed the post, eTwinny and you made perfect sense (Is there a full moon tonight? :)
Checking now, thanks for the heads up, Mark :-)
DeleteI never understood why my mom got irritated when I shoved the crumbs under the rug...I mean out of sight is the goal, right?
DeleteDid I make sense? Egads. Maybe the moon is full!
Great advice from Elizabeth! I had never thought of the difference between small and large publishers - mainly because I'm so far from subbing a novel it's almost irrelevant! I'll be thinking about it now, though!
ReplyDeleteAll parts of the industry are worth considering, whatever stage of the process you're at.
DeleteLinda I remember reading blog posts about things like marketing and promotion and I'd think it didn't apply to me, but then suddenly it did and I was trying to play catch up!
Deletevery good post. However when the big boys and girls ramble it's "literary". Think about it - my biggest example is Joyce Carol Oates. Sometimes her writing is sublime, and other times she gets away with a ton of blather. No matter how one is publishing, kill the darlings is good advice. Have a great weekend to all
ReplyDeleteOh my goodness. EXCELLENT point Joanne! I refuse to read any book that blathers on, I mean if you start out a story with more than a half page of description, I'm out of there. Sometimes I think that circular literary overkill just makes people feel smart. I don't read to look smart. I want something good that entertains me.
DeleteI've tried so hard to read some authors because everyone else raves about them, but I agree, they're using their name to waffle on a bit :-)
DeleteGreat post! There are so many fantastic indie and small press authors. I agree sometimes the editing isn't the best, but sometimes they surprise you. I'm lucky one of my CPs is a fabulous editor and she keeps me in line.
ReplyDeleteI read your first story in the 13th Floor series. You know what you're doing lady! Your CP is fabulous!
DeleteTotally agree with Elizabeth here, The 13th Floor series is very well written :-) Ahem, do I know this CP at all??
DeleteYou know Cherie Reich! I'm a very lucky gal to have her as my CP. :)
DeleteHi, thanks for visiting my blog Annalisa. I like the Stephen King quote, Elizabeth!
ReplyDeleteStephen King really is, well, the King!
DeleteYou're welcome, Barry. I hope you enjoy the blogging experience.
DeleteYeah Stephen King has written some great books. I just think sometimes he struggles with his endings, e.g. "The Stand". Another thing that amazes me is how well some of his stories are adapted to film. "Stand by me," "Shawshank Redemption," and "The Green Mile" are all actually better than the books in my opinion. On the other hand, "The Shining" is one of the scariest and most atmospheric books I've ever read. And yet the film fails to capture/convey any of that. I think Stephen King himself was unhappy with that film.
DeleteEven the greats can't be perfect all of the time and there is such a variety of taste among readers and viewers. And some stories, like The Shining, are always better books because sometimes motive and insanity don't translate as well in film.
DeleteVery true, I've read a lot of His books. (Although not many of his later ones). My personal favorites Include, The dark half, Needful things, and, of course, The shining. The guy's obviously a genius, and like you say, can't always be perfect. Which is not surprising, considering the amount he's written. I may have to explore some of his later books
DeleteI need read more of his books. I read the Dark Tower book one and didn't like it. But it wasn't my flavor. Well written and wonderful, but just not my kind of read.
DeleteVery prolific writer. Dark tower was his attempt at fantasy wasn't it? I've never read it. I remember enjoying The Stand when it first came out (over thirty years ago my God!). I still love The Shining though. It's one of those books that makes you feel uneasy and disturbed, in a good way.
DeleteThank you having me over Annalisa! And for the tea and biscuits. I've never had a chocolate biscuit...so excited!
ReplyDeleteAlways a pleasure, Elizabeth. I just noticed the Rafflecopter thingy didn't work like it has on all the other stops. I think I must have done something wrong.
DeleteI can email you another code. I probably messed up the cutting and pasting. (But only change it if you feel like it!)
DeleteAs a fan of Anna, Elizabeth and indie work, this was a special treasure.
ReplyDeleteSome kind of wonderful E!
Thank you :-)
DeleteAw Jay...you're such a smooth talker. You've been hanging out with Dan too long ;)
DeleteI'm enjoying working with indie publishers this year. I've enjoyed many small press books. Formulas get tiring.
ReplyDeleteMedeia, you're so meticulous, I believe you could write well under any conditions! And yes, I'd rather find a few typos than know where the story is headed after page ten.
DeleteTotally agree. Much better to fix it when fixing is possible rather than getting nailed for it later. Great post!
ReplyDeleteSarah Allen
(From Sarah, With Joy)
Yep. Reviewers can be harsh! Best to polish as much out as you can before they get hold of it.
DeleteYay for Elizabeth! I'd much rather wear a crown than lick water from a bowl.
ReplyDeleteExcellent way to put it...you should so be a writer ;)
DeleteCrowns are cool!
DeleteThanks for stopping by Andrew.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth's dream is one this Elizabeth shares!
ReplyDeletewe Lizy's think alike ;)
DeleteMy two favourite Lizys in the same place! :-)
DeleteBig smiles :)
DeleteInteresting interview and what a beautiful cover!
ReplyDeleteI love the cover too. Lindsay Anne Kendal is to thank for that!
DeleteYes it is a lovely cover, Rebecca!
DeleteGreat Post! I'm happy you had Elizabeth over to talk about that subject. I have a small writing project. My goal is to self publish it. It will ultimately be an e-read. Because this chance may never come my way again (I consider myself a hobby writer) I didn't skimp on the proofing and editing and chose to have it looked at by a professional to spit shine it up first.
ReplyDeleteWise woman. I often think of myself as a hobby writer too. I know there are things I could do to make more money with it, but I never want to kill the joy of writing. I'd be lost if I came to hate my words!
DeleteGood for you Gossip_Grl. Writing is hard work... consider yourself 'a writer' :-)
DeleteGreat interview. Thanks, Annalisa for introducing me to Elizabeth and her work. Love the blurb for Fate Intended. I'm going to have to give this series a look =)
ReplyDeleteI hope you do ;)
DeleteHi Ruth :-)
DeleteHi Annalisa and Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI know, what the heck took me so long. Fate Intended me to get here late in the festivities. Some wise and thoughtful words from the wise and thoughtful Elizabeth. Can I assume, "small pubs", are typical English village drinking establishments?
Gary :)
Of course that's what 'small pubs' means, Gary! What else could they possibly be?? ;-)
DeleteAlways better late than never Gary...even at the pub!
DeleteGreat advice. I think surrounding yourself with "yes-men" is quite dangerous. We all like our ego stroked, but improving the craft is more important.
ReplyDeleteI've never had a yes-man... I must get one of those one day, just for fun. I could keep him in the cupboard and pull him out when I needed a boost :-)
DeletePerfectly put Steven!
DeleteThat Stephen King quote made me laugh. But it's so hard....
ReplyDeleteI recently killed two-thirds of a book. I got a strange kick after a while, and if a page remained untouched I went back to cut something :-)
DeleteIf it's a very dear darling, getting a few opinions before slicing wouldn't hurt.
Delete